Present: P. Bonneau, M. Bosteels , P-B. Brouze, G. Hallewell, T. Meyer, A.
Onnela, A. Placci, H. Postema, A. Smith.

1. The minutes of the previous meeting were accepted. Under matters arising,
A. Smith explained that a budget code was being opened for the Phase I tests
and 83 KCHF would be initially deposited in it, this coming as 40 KCHF from
EP, division to cover the manpower costs, with the rest being divided 50/50
between ATLAS and CMS.

2. Status of Phase I tests

Alasdair said that the figure of 83 KCHF did not cover all that had been
originally asked for, but had been agreed between M. Price and W. Witzeling
and it included the manpower costs for the low pressure system, 14 KCHF for
the monophase system, with the rest foreseen for instrumentation and
refrigerant. He had talked with T. Niinikoski who had estimated with M.
Bosteels that 5 KCHF would be needed for the Phase I high pressure system
tests. A. Smith would contact W. Witzeling to identify what is supposed to be
covered by this sum and to start to sort out how much more will be needed.
Michel mentioned that Geneva University were working on low temperature
monophase cooling with C6F14. This was being done by E. Pereira working with
Allan Clark. Hans P would contact them to find out the status of their project
and whether it could be compatible with the Phase I tests. The problem with
obtaining a guaranteed supply of C4F10 was discussed. 3M is the only supplier
and L. Foa had to intervene over a year ago to ensure that they would continue
to produce enough for the DELPHI RICH. There is a need to find a second
source, and A. Onnela said he needed to place an order very soon to be ready
for the phase I tests.
ATLAS and CMS should provide test pieces for the Phase I tests. ATLAS seemed
to have most detectors covered but there was no contact with the CMS barrel.
Hans P would contact them and Alasdair would contact M. Mannelli about the CMS
forward silicon.
It was reported that RAL were investigating buying a chiller for fluroinert
monophase tests, but it was not clear on what budget they expected that this
would be paid.
Michel Bosteels presented a monophase system which he had built for BNL and
which could be used for room tepmerature or lower temperature cooling. He had
a second system which would be used for Annti's phase I tests.

3. Phase II  - what is needed and what costs are involved
Michel explained how he planned to install the Phase II systems. He made use
of a photograph of the LSS5 pit to show this. He believed a workshop would be
needed at LSS5 and he considered using scaffolding to support the test boxes
etc. Greg suggested that the tests boxes should be at mid-height with some
test pieces being fed from above and some from below. He made a strong case
for the control system to be tested in Phase II. He and Alasdair preferred to
avoid using scaffolding. Alasdair had spoken to Chris Fabjan who was not aware
of the Phase II plans. He proposed to arrange a meeting with him and Michel in
situ to find what space could be made available.
Greg had estimated that 170 KCHF would be needed to cover the Phase II low
pressure evaporator, with most of this money going on the control system.
Michel reckoned that 200 KCHF would be needed for the refrigerator and
recirculator once manpower costs were included. Alasdair was concerned about
the wisdom of spending 4-500 KCHF on a test system unless most of its parts
could be used.
It was agreed that a monophase system should also form part of the Phase II
tests.
Alasdair reported that Tapio was interested in his high pressure system being
included in the Phase I tests but that it would have to have "buyers", i.e.
groups interested in using it, in order for more work to be done and have it
continue into Phase II.
Greg presented some results from Geneva University's tests with C4F10 on a
full scale SET stave. The system works at 480 mbar and the results were
encouraging. He added that a C4F10 system uses micron diameter orifices, hence
needs to be clean, well protected by filters, and cannot tolerate oil from
compressors.

4. Irradiation tests

 It was felt that it would be useful to have Sorin Ilie make a presentation at
the next meeting.
Hans P had some data from irradiation tests on fluroinert compounds but he
regarded these tests as having been too academic. They would probably not
corrspond to reality ( e.g by not having oxygen dissolved in the liquid) and
that "dirty" tests would be required. Alfredo pointed out that tests had to be
budgeted as irradiation by neutrons and gammas would probably have to be paid
for at non-CERN facilities. Instrumentation would be required for tests
conducted at CERN. Michel has a chromatograph available and it might be
possible to obtain use of a mass spectrometer at CERN. At the moment, all
tests carried out by EST have to be paid for but it is hoped that this
situation will change in a few months time. Alfredo and Alasdair would try to
set up a meeting with C. Benvenuti, D. Gusewell and Mike Price to clarify
EST's role in the cooling studies.
Alfredo added that there was a need to define what tests would have to be
passed successfully in order to qualify a cooling liquid.

5. Next meeting

The next meeting will take place on Wednesday 29th April at 14h00 in B40
R-D10.
 
 
Back to Home Page.